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Art ratings? 
17th-Aug-2005 07:15 pm
Owl totem
A question - particularly for my fellow artists, but I'm interested to hear everybody's opinion.

The ratings that are gernerally ascribed to fanfiction - G through to NC17 - do you think the same standards should apply to art? Or should they be higher because it is a visual medium?

I ask because the picture in my icon - the full version of which you can see here - Passionate Ron/Hermione, was just labelled NC17 in a forum and, I'm sorry, but I would never have classed that pic NC17. Yes, it's suggestive, but that's it. There is no cock to be seen, no sexual act in progress, not even a breast.

Personally, I'd have rated it M (15+), just to be on the safe side. Am I too liberal? I mean, my kids have all seen this, and they range in age from 15 down to just-turned-9. They weren't horrified or traumatised by it. And, to counterpoint, none of them have seen the 'quickie' slash drawing I did for shocolate the other day, because I know that would squick them, and that one I do regard as NC17.

So what's the consensus? Would you rate this painting NC17?

And, out of interest, what would you rate this one while we're at it?
17th-Aug-2005 02:24 am (UTC)
Dude, the US ratings astound us here in Europe. We are way too liberal about nudity and whatnot.

I agree with you, though - even in US terms, I don't think that picture warrants a NC-17. I'd give it an R.
17th-Aug-2005 02:30 am (UTC)
Really? An R? In Australia R is 18 and over.

What about the breastfeeding one? You can see far more breast in that one, and it does have sexual undertones, yet it is also a nice family pic. ;~)
17th-Aug-2005 02:31 am (UTC)

I'd rate it as an R. I don't think that it's NC-17 at all ... and the pic of Lily breastfeeding I'd rate a PG13, maybe PG. I mean that is not a sexual picture at all ... she's breastfeeding her child and having a laugh with James. It's full of love and just all around adorable.

I might not be a good judge though -- I often think that we're too strict about presentations of sex and nudity here in the US and too lenient with violence when it comes to ratings.
17th-Aug-2005 02:34 am (UTC)
BTW, in the US an R rating is 17 and up ... maybe that's too strict for the pic. (Though I tend to be a bit lenient with R ratings because to me they never meant anything. Technically you're not supposed to see an R rated film before you're 17 but when I was a kid it wasn't much of a big deal or a problem to do so anyway ...)
17th-Aug-2005 03:02 am (UTC)
Sometimes this rating business makes me a bit tired. In all honesty, I wouldn't rate your Passionate Ron/Hermione picture higher than PG-13 because just flip open any women's magazine and see an advertisement which is just as racy. As for the breastfeeding pic. G. People who are offended by a woman breastfeeding, are people who are offended by nature. I assume they can't go out of the door because there are plants pollinating outside or something.

(And it goes without explaining that I'm a liberal European)
17th-Aug-2005 03:06 am (UTC)
*hugs you* Thanks! :~)
17th-Aug-2005 03:22 am (UTC)
I'd tend to rate the Ron/Hermione as a PG-13/R (done like that), because it's not really racy enough to deserve an R, so much, but it's always good to be safe. (I mean, you see stuff like that on the covers of romance novels all the time.) The breastfeeding one's G, I would think. MAYBE PG if you wanted to be extra-careful.
17th-Aug-2005 03:23 am (UTC)
In terms of Australian ratings (which, hurrah, both of us understand) I'd rate the R/H pic M. I hate the kneejerk reaction that violence is fine but some sweet loving is wrongity wrong.

(The squicky Remus/Snape pic was a definite R, though).
17th-Aug-2005 03:30 am (UTC)
As another Aussie in on this, Id go with the M.
And for the U.S people or others who arent sure. Our rating system is thus
PG-Parental Guidance
M-Mature 15 years
MA- Must be 15 or over OR parental consent
R- Forget about it if you're under 18

17th-Aug-2005 03:54 am (UTC)
*twtitch* NC-17? HAHAHAH
Umm no, I've seen just as much in an Z-men comic, seriosyly, I think it's PG-13, not even R.

They suggestion of a coming sexual act is there, but the picture does not depict it and Hermione is covered more than half the woman I see in comics.

*maybe* R because technically Hermione has no top on, but in the US, that implies no one under 17 can see that without a parent and I jsut don't feel it's that bad or that harmful in content and suggestion.

but ummm NC-17, nononono, that rating is reserved for exposed genitalia, not even jsut for exposed breasts. An exposed breast is just R.

As for the second picture . . . I'm extremely liberal here but PG.
Seriously, the breast is not used in a sexual manner in the picture so there is no reason to rate it as though it were this scary thing that your children can't know about.
But my mom is about to become (Hopefully) the vice president of Lamaz so I'm very very very liberal when it comes to breastfeeding babies ^^;;

It drives me niuts to see people try and rate breastfeeding pictures as though it were somethign dirty and sexual -_- Too many guys just can't see past boobs=sex IMHO.
17th-Aug-2005 04:04 am (UTC)
I would agree with you not to rate that first one NC-17, that's just ridiculous. R I can see, but not NC-17. The second one I'd rate PG, it's not sexual at all.
17th-Aug-2005 04:23 am (UTC)
Hell, I'd think they were over-reacting to call it an R (US ratings, but I'm only really aware of them as we put them on fic.) I think you just found an odd group there *shrug*
17th-Aug-2005 04:34 am (UTC)
It was the Checkmated forums. :~P
17th-Aug-2005 05:21 am (UTC)
I'm a bit uncertain on these ratings as we have nothing really like it here - I think the movie ratings (which are just cautionary, there is no actual restriction imposed) run from "All" over 7+ to 15+ and that's about it :/
I think your rating of M(15+) to be on the safe side is fine. I'd let my kids see it (14 and 10), and I don't think they'd be either horrified or traumatised by the quickie picture either, but they'd definitely be squicked so I wouldn't show them that. To compare: I showed them this drawing I did (and they just thought the squid was awesome), but not this one :)
I'd consider the breastfeeding picture G, but I know the view on breastfeeding varies a lot - in this country women do it publicly, though many don't blatantly display their breasts while doing it but rather just uncover one at a time to let the kid suckle ;)
I don't see why art should be rated higher than fic... maybe some do because it's so readily accessible to anyone - I mean, you don't have to spend time and effort reading it, the reading of a picture is almost instantaneous (at least a superficial reading of it).
17th-Aug-2005 06:04 am (UTC)
That first one I would give a PG-13. Maybe an R (your equivalent of an M, I think), but it's definitely not NC-17. That said, I usually rate my own stuff higher than I think it should be just to try to keep the very easily offended from clicking the link. :oD

The breast-feeding one (I love that one so much - such a happy little family!) is 'G', IMO. I don't see anything wrong with letting children, even young ones, see a woman feeding her child, so yeah...G. That's a bit of a pet peeve of mine, though. Some of the same people who have no problem with nude images of women in fashion magazines, etc. complain bitterly if they see a woman discreetly breast-feeding in a public place. An example - a few years ago, in our local shopping mall, I overheard a group of young, professional-type women loudly and quite bitchily complaining about a woman, sitting on a bench outside the stores, who was breast-feeding her baby (very discreetly, at that - she had a cloth draped over the baby's head.) The Victoria's Secret shop had a large poster display in the window, showing one of their models modeling panties. She had no bra on and had her arms crossed and her hands covered the nipple area. These same women sauntered happily into Victoria's without a second glance at the mostly nude model touching herself. It would have been almost funny, except it wasn't. :o)
17th-Aug-2005 06:09 am (UTC)
Oh, as for the breast feeding one, I'd say PG or PG-13(only by USA standards because women don't bare their breasts on a public beach and are pretty discreet when breast feeding). There is nothing sexual/violent about that picture to warrent a higher rating.

It's nothing I'd have a problem with my 11-year-old son viewing(although it might be followed by a chorus of "EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! GROSS!")

The one that I think I might Rate NC-17 is the Arthur/Molly one you did awhile back on the different seasons of love.
17th-Aug-2005 06:11 am (UTC)
I'm pretty familiar with the US rating system. (I'm old enough to remember the griping that got the PG-13 rating introduced).

Both pics would pull a PG-13. The Ron/Hermione pic because it is so blatantly, frankly, (and wonderly) sexual in nature. The breast feeding picture because you're showing exposed breasts.

Ironically, there was a time when the Ron/Hermione picture would have pulled a PG while the breast feeding picture would have pulled an R, because Americans are damned uptight about allowing kids to see tits, even if they spent the first year of their life chewing on a pair, but hey, what do you expect from a group whose primary cultural identity is a direct decendant of a group of Extremist Calvanists.

The quickie, on the other hand, is NC-17 straight up. First, there's cock, which is an almost automatic R. Then there's the fact that someone is touching that cock, which bumps it right up to NC-17.
17th-Aug-2005 06:12 am (UTC)
The Ron/Hermione pic NC-17?? That's a bit much, IMO. I'd put it at an American PG-13, no higher, really. The breastfeeding pic is G, to me. What in the world to people think they're hung there for, anyway??? I don't go around with my boobs on display 24/7, but when I was nursing, if my baby was hungry, she got fed. Period. I wasn't about to slink away into a public bathroom and sit on a dirty toilet to feed her - I didn't eat MY meal in there, and I didn't expect her to, either. ;) She also didn't like to have her face covered, so yeah, once in a while, someone saw something. I'm sure they'll get over it. ;)
17th-Aug-2005 06:21 am (UTC)
I would rate the first on M, and the second one PG-13 (not sure what the equivalent is in fanfics)
17th-Aug-2005 06:23 am (UTC) - *agah* Now Posted on the right entry
I rate fics and pics all the time as a mod on a HP site (granted not R/H). I would only have given it an R rating.

Reasons why R:

1) Suggestive positions of Ron's hands especially the right one. In another 10 seconds we all know where it's going to land.

2) The intensely passionate emotional overtones of the piece.

Reasons why not NC-17:

1) No exposed genetalia

2) Ron's hand is aiming at Hermione's crotch but it isn't there yet.

3) It seems to be consentual, non kinky foreplay of two people who are of age. In other words, tab A has not yet found slot B!(But if Ron is worth his salt it will in about 15 minutes)

The pic you did awhile back of the seasons of love with Arthur and Molly I think (from memory) would barely cross the line between R and Nc-17.
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